whatever the crap he wants

This post is a reply to a question asked via e-mail, here it is: Okay, so my question is what are your thoughts on the whole "did God make Adam and Eve sin and does he make us sin" question? Just curious... :)...

This question has been circulating around the makenew community for the last few weeks and is in need of some clairity. Before I launch out here I want to make a disclaimer, which is this: This post is not a comprehensive theological answer to the problem of the authorship of evil, it's not even supposed to be. This is part 1 of a multi post answer to the practical question of sovereignty and free will. That said let's begin.

We will focus here on the particular question of Adam and Eve knowing that we are really speaking about humanity in a broader sense. So did God make Adam and Eve sin? NO.

That made half of you happy and the rest of you are angrily typing responses without reading the rest, please read the rest, you might even like it.

Here is another questoin that needs to be answered, could Adam and Eve have not sinned? It is not the same question because the first question asks if God made them do it, this question asks if anything else could have made them do it. (Side note, when I write 'made' I mean effectually compelled not possessed like a demon or controlled like a robot) So could they have not sinned? NO

Here is what we know:

God made man and in doing so made man both volitional and able to love himself.
God has designed us both gerally as people and specifically as individuals.
God controlls all things in that he holds all things together and 'works' all things.
God is holy and can have no relationship with sin or sinful things.
God assures us that there is alway a means of escaping sin.

Now let's attempt to sythesize this information. God made us and therefore has intimate knowledge our personal inner workings. God knew that if Adam and Eve were in the type of situation they found themself in they surely would sin. This does not eliminate the volition of Adam or Eve it validates it. God understood their self love to be strong enough that they surely would participate in the devil's scheme. This does not eliminate the possibility of a means of resistance but rather speaks to God's knowledge of his creation.

I could leave my daughter alone in room with a cookie and tell her not to eat it. I could even tell her that she could call me for help if the temptation was too strong. But my finite knowledge of my daughter tells me that cookie is gone. I wanted her to succeed, gave her every opportunity, offered my help, yet I knew she would eat the cookie. How much more precisely can God predict the response of his creation in any given circumstance. The question now becomes did God knowingly design the circumstance in which he knew His creation would sin? Yes.

He holds all things together. He works all things. He is sovereign and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Comments

[Mel Spears]

I'd agree with that. I think God does know us enough to know what our sins are and He knows how we will react to every situation, I just don't think He would make me murder someone, but He knows if I am capable and if I will.

[Mike]

This opens the door to many more questions about foreknowledge for sure. Does God just create the circumstances for people to choose him--or is it something else?

Did Adam and Eve have the ability to choose good and evil in the garden, much like a Christian does today?

These are just a quick couple ones. I can't wait to grab a pint (or two-ish) and discuss this round table style.

[Ryan]

More questions?!? Absolutely. Here is a quick reply to the two questions listed.

Does God just create the circumstances for people to choose him--or is it something else?

What we have at work here is the irresistible nature of God as He relates to humans. Does He do more than just arrange our circumstances? Yes, he takes the spiritual thing inside us that is dead and brings it back to life. Then He reveals Himself to us. Both of these acts contribute to a situation in which we must choose to follow Him or not. In this case we are sure to choose Him on account of two facts:

1. Being alive we are made able to make choices from all possible options (something we were not able to do previous to regeneration).

2. When given the choice of all possible options individuals called by God will say yes always. In this way God is irresistible. Like a wife to a husband, like a cookie to a child... only infinitely so. My wife does not force me to love her at times, I simply find the impulse to love her irresistible.

Did Adam and Eve have the ability to choose good and evil in the garden, much like a Christian does today?

Absolutely, the ability was there, the means of escape was there, the Creator was there. They simply elected to love themselves more than God and in that moment they sinned.

[Mike]

To dig a little deeper, the idea of regeneration needs to be explored in this context. When we are regenerated, what makes the choice of God any less resistible than it did in the Garden for Adam and Eve? What has God done differently in us than in them, to secure our response?

[Ryan]

Great question here and another that cannot be handled appropraitely in scope of a blog post. Here are some initial thoughts:

"When we are regenerated, what makes the choice of God any less resistible than it did in the Garden for Adam and Eve?"

Election. This is a unique and particular act at that is distinct from God's normative relationship with humanity. Even those who are redeemed continue to choose something other than Christ and His ways. It is not that Christ is present or active but that He is uniquely active in the work of executing the Father's election.

[Mel Spears]

Update your blog. Stop being a slacker.

[Missy O'Day]

God is done crapping. Move your arse on to a new post.